Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange

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dmanches
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Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
I'm new and been reading a ton here for a few weeks. The more I read, the more confused I get. I have chemical low lights and highlights and damaged hair. I have been doing my roots only in between yearly highlights to cover grey that I've been getting since I was 26. The root color I used was 6N. I don't feel a dark color looks good with my complexion so I've always loved my highlights. Except the damage. So a few months ago I used 'marigold blonde henna' from Morrocco Method after discovering it. It's mainly cassia according to the ingredients, along with marigold flower. First time, I didn't have nearly enough to saturate my hair. But what I used got sucked up by my highlighted hair. I ordered more, then did it again. I didn't care for the overall darker color of my hair, but it felt a lot better. The cassia made my grey roots pale blonde, but it still looked horrible against the darker color of my hair. So, it went pale blonde roots for half inch, then the 6N dark, then highlights...a mess. So then I used 'Light Brown' Morrocco Method on roots only. According to ingredients, there is no indigo in that. It says henna leaf and bark. There was a definite red tone that I do NOT want. So I waited a few days, then did it again. It made it a little less red, but I still feel like it's there. Then I discovered this site and have been reading, reading and getting confused. I ordered and received some henna (Rajasthani Monsoon), cassia, indigo and amla. But now I'm too confused and afraid to do anything with it because in the time I waited to receive it, I've gotten more confused by what I've read. This is what I want my hair to look like: Not too dark. The darkest parts of my hair now, if my hair was all one color, is darker than what I want. I want No red. Red looks great on some people, but not me and I do not want any. I'd like to keep some lighter parts like where my highlights used to be. You can tell by my pics that the highlighted parts are still lighter than the rest (used cassia only on the whole head about 5 weeks ago). Here is my hair now. My issue is I need to cover the grey roots as they come in, put something on the length of it to help the dry condition (I think the cassia wore off maybe, but the color is still there) and then there are some long grey hairs on the underneath of my hair I can see when I pull it forward. As crazy as it sounds, I never even noticed them until last week. They are pretty obvious to me now. You can see in this first pic if you can zoom maybe. http://www.flickr.com/photos/11837438@N08/12642701865/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/11837438@N08/12642701685/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/11837438@N08/12642701985/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/11837438@N08/12643190674/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/11837438@N08/12643190704/in/photostream/ I like the contrast in my last pic. I'm afraid of my hair being all one color because I've never thought it was very flattering on me. But with all this grey coming in, it seems like that's all I can do to cover it is do it dark. Then what do I do to the length? If I had to be all one color, I really like this color. http://www.flickr.com/photos/11837438@N08/12643307875/in/photostream/ My hair is very porous, damaged and dry. I remember it being that way before I ever got highlights. The bleach really pushed it over the edge. I also want to keep my waves and not have that heavy feeling I think henna will give. The things I'm confused about: If I use a mix with henna in it, and whatever I mix with it fades, but the henna stays, then what do I do? Will it be red? As the roots come in, then do I do just the roots, and if so, wouldn't it overlap somewhat and add more pigment? I understand it takes a few days to oxidize, but does it keep oxidizing after months? I worry that if I do something I like, then a month or two later will it be a different color? How do you keep what you like? I also use the hair dryer diffuser a few times a week. I heard heat darkens the color, too. If that is the case, I do a very intense infrared lamp sauna almost daily...is that going to change my hair color? I have hair from my brush saved to do strand tests, but that won't really tell me what it's going to do to my grey roots as they come in. Also, I don't think it will tell me what will happen to the highlighted hair. I don't know...maybe it will. Another thing I was confused about.. the cassia. Say I did just the cassia on my length. If that fades, then do you do it every month or so? Then I read it builds up and turns brassy. So why would you want to keep doing it? If you do a cassia/hendigo then do you ever redo the cassia through the length? And then there is the root problem. I know this is long, but I'm so confused and don't know what to do. I like the color I can get with chemicals, but am really wanting to give this a try. But it sounds like if I don't like it, I'm 'stuck' with hair I don't like for years until it grows out? Can someone give me some advise on what to do? Maybe I am over-thinking it?
HennaGal
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
After seeing your photos, i suggest to try a mix of 4 parts cassia, 1 part henna,  1 part indigo, and 1/4 amla. That is my basic sorta "light toffee" mix. Amla helps to prevent the effect henna has on wavy hair as well as cuts the brassy tones. if the indigo in the mix dulls, you can create an indigo gloss to neutralize the red tones. to make the gloss use 1-2 tbsp indigo mixed with warm water to a paste. add that to about 1/2 cup of hair conditioner and let it sit for 15 minutes. apply all over or just certain areas. rinse that out after about 15-20 minutes. the gloss will tone the red without making your hair darker.

The color should be pretty permanent, so try to just keep up with the roots. a little bit of over lap should blend okay. My henna usually takes about 4 days to fully oxidize. as long as you dont do frequent full head applications it shouldn't get much deeper. i like to do full head applications every 4-6 months to once a year. 4 months may not work for you. i am a fan of heat styling! it really doesn't seem to change the color for me.  the sauna shouldn't bother your color, as long as your not shampooing afterward. indigo has a larger dye molecule and frequent shampooing tends to pull it out . henna is a transucent stain so your lighter hair will always be a bit lighter. cassia dye released with amla will product a nice ashy tone! cassia is not as strong as henna and really doesn't build up. you can certainly do cassia treatments monthly. I hope i answered everything!
dmanches
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
Thank you very much for the reply. What should I mix the henna/cassia/amla in? Just water (I know the amla is acidic, but is it enough)? Does "1/4" amla mean use 1/4 of the packet I got? Also, for how long should I let it sit? If I understand what I've read so far, I let the cassia, henna and amla all sit for awhile, then mix the indigo with water only right before I mix it into the other dye released mix of cassia/henna/amla, then apply. How long should I leave it on? Do you think that would have the light toffee sort of color on my grey?
HennaGal
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
you'll want you 1/4 the total amount of henna/cassia. so if you use, say 100g henna/cassia combined, use 25g of amla.  mix the henna, cassia, and amla together. Then, add enough room temperature water to make a thick mashed potato consistency. let it sit covered about 8-12 hour ( a little longer is okay). you have the indigo part right! your gray MAY have more of a golden highlight.
HennaGal
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
leave it on for about 3 hours. sorry forgot that part!
Nevada
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
That's the exact color I am looking for too.  Please let us know how your hair turns out if you use HennaGal's recipe.
dmanches
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
Thanks for the help. I will post what happens here next week after I make a move. I won't have enough time to do it until then. Little nervous. . .
dmanches
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
I did a strand test Saturday on hair from my brush, so it was more like on a matted ball of hair. I'm really wanting to know what will happen to my previously highlighted hair (which is just on the outside length) and also my grey. Well, the ball of hair didn't look much different to me. And it didn't really tell me what will happen to the grey. So...I decided to test an inconspicuous section of hair last night. I did an underneath section of my darker hair that I've noticed some long, grey hairs in. Left the ratios of what you mentioned in for the hours. I can't really see a difference. I know it wouldn't darken it since it was mostly cassia, plus that part of my hair is darker. But I think the grey hairs are still grey. Dang it! OK, so that mix probably won't cut it for my greys. I have another batch brewing now so I can do more testing after work tonight. This time, I'm planning on dipping just the bottom part of section of previously highlighted hair in, just to see what it does to it. So I was thinking...perhaps I could do just straight cassia monthly on my whole hair. That way it won't make what I have there darker. And you said it doesn't build up? I don't want yellow hair where highlights were if I keep doing it. That just leaves me with the root problem then. So I was thinking, maybe I can come up with some ratio of the different plant dyes to give me a shade of brown for the roots only, then on subsequent root touches, do a mix that is slightly lighter, then lighter, lighter....that way it won't be the grey or blonde virgin roots (if I do cassia all over each month) showing against my already colored darker parts...? Does that sounds OK or make sense? Also, the reason I want the monthly cassia on the length is for conditioning of my dry hair. I know I've read it can be drying sometimes. Do you recommend using amla in the cassia? What would that do, if anything for the yellow dye of cassia? If I don't use amla for the acidity, what should I use? Also, I'm confused about using lemon juice vs apple or ACV for dye release....in my mind I keep thinking the more acidic the liquid, the faster the dye release. But that isn't the case. Say if I used just water, the dye release is faster? So are the results on the hair less permanent when you use just water and get the dye release faster? Does it even matter with cassia since that's not permanent anyways?
xostali
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
Hi...I'm a newbie, so I don't have any advice, but I wanted to say that even though you don't think the color of your darker, reddish roots suits you, I think it looks beautiful. :) Not helpful, I realize, but I just thought I'd tell you that I could see your entire head that color - at least from the photos, it looks rich and flattering.
dmanches
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
Thanks. I did have all over dark (almost black) chemical color once about eight years ago. My hair stylist at the time said it would look good on me. I hated that so much. Made me look washed out big time, I felt. Made my hair "feel" healthier for the time being anyways. Now with the amount of grey roots I have, I'm not wanting to go super dark unless I'm sure b/c the outgrowth look contrast...I don't want that. If I could be more on the lighter side, without the bleaching damage, I'd prefer that for now. But thank you for the comment!
dmanches
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
I ended up putting a mix on the underside, left quadrant of my hair (the spot where I have the long grey hairs in there if you saw the pic). I figured I won't be highlighting that ever anyways, and there aren't any highlights under there now. Mainly wanted to see what it would do to greys. The mix was the suggested 4parts cassia to 1 part each henna and indigo plus 1/4 amla. I dye released the cassia,amla and henna with room temp distilled water, using the amla as the acid, about 12 hours, mixed the indigo right before applying, mixed that into the other mixture then applied to the quadrant of hair for two hours. I didn't notice much difference, hard to tell if the greys were still obvious that day. They seemed a little copper. The very next day, I did a whole head cassia (used apple cider vinegar and distilled water, dye released 12 hours and applied for 4 hours). I like the cassia all over b/c I feel like it gives conditioning and shine, without making me dark and without giving me any red. Those are the two things I want to avoid. So, after a few days, and after those two current treatments, it seems those long greys in the lower left quadrant look kinda blonde. Ok by me, but I don't know if the cassia wears off of grey hair. Maybe it looks blonde b/c of the first treatment of cassia/henna/indigo/amla, then after it oxidized it was a blonde color. Anyways, this still leaves me with experimenting with my grey roots. I tried a 50/50 hendigo paste with dye-released henna and tested one "row" of grey roots. Hard to tell with that since the sample was so small. Can't really even find where I put it...I chickened out and rinsed it after 30 minutes. This weekend I want to try something on my roots, I just am not sure what. I was thinking a gloss to see if I can get some sort of light to medium brown on my greys to blend into what I have without going all dark. I don't want to get backed into a corner eventually and have that stark root line of grey outgrowth against dark length. I saw a post on here with a link to how to use a gloss to get a light brown color on greys, but when I click on it, it says it's forbidden. I don't know if I can even color my grey roots with a gloss, or if I'd have to sort of color build with several. If anyone has ideas...
dmanches
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
Well I'm just about to give up on henna. I've been experimenting and reading endless hours for three months and it just seems to get more confusing and complicated. Seems unless I want red/orange hair (NO) or pale blonde (no) then it's a waste of time to keep trying.
dmanches
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Re: Chemical hair and Gray roots-- want to avoid Red/Orange
Making small posts since my browser doesn't support this site apparently and paragraphs are impossible to achieve. Never had this problem before. Anyways, I've got yet two more slightly different mixes of cassia/amla/henna/indigo on different parts of head now and doing it again. After yesterday's gloss was a waste of time. . This will probably be the last time. The TINY bit of henna I do use just seems to make the hair immediately after my grey roots deeper red, does nothing to the grey. Also, doing just roots is impossible. Don't know how people are accomplishing that. Again, don't want red hair.
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