Indigo or buxus?

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Magical Mystery Girl
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Indigo or buxus?

Hello,

 

I haven't posted here in a while, but am looking for advice or what I'm trying to achieve.  After being blonde for several months, I decided to go medium chocolate brown and loved it so very much against my green eyes that I want to stick to it! However, I don't want to keep using chemicals on my hair, because it's taking a toll on my curls.  I have a natural hair color of somewhere between level 6 and 7 (dark blonde/light brown... very dull in tone).  My current color is a dark brown, although my goal was medium chocolate brown.  Thing is, my ends are so porous from all the blonde processing that the dye absorbed to a near black shade! Black wahses me out and I am avoiding it at all costs.  Since I'm aiming for a color darker than my natural one, I was wondering whether I should use buxus or indigo on my porous hair to achieve this color:

3.bp.blogspot.com/_sXI8Dr0DFV0/SQWHfUSS9JI/AAAAAAAAU8w/M_DXFHW-2bM/s400-R/badasshair112.jpg

I ordered some Moroccan henna from henna sooq, since she recommended I use that one to avoid a strong red cast in my hair.  But should I use buxus/henna at a 60/40 ratio, or 50/50 henna/indigo to achieve the result I want.  Again, my ends are porous and I don't want black hair!! I'll be using amla as well, to tone down the red further and add some acidity to the henna for dye release.

I'll be using a gentle color remover which will result in a level 6 auburn.  Any advice would be great!

Carrie
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Re: Indigo or buxus?

Indigo gets sucked up excessively by porous chemically treated hair too, so I'm hesitant to recommend it for you, yet I think indigo is key to getting the color you want. I haven't seen as many reports from buxus users so I don't know if it will have the same problem on porous hair, but - aside from the porosity question - it does tend to fade on everyone I've seen reporting on it, while the henna generally will not fade, so you could find yourself gradually getting more red tones as the buxus fades.

The 50/50  henna/indigo with amla added to the henna is where I'd start with strand testing. Henna/buxus doesn't tend to get as dark as your desired color, but you may want to experiment with a mix including henna, buxus AND indigo.

Not sure what else to suggest except proceed cautiously, do lots of strand tests, and don't use indigo at all if you think you may change your mind about being this dark, because indigo is bombproof and can't be chemically removed or bleached.

chrisg
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Re: Indigo or buxus?

With that much damage you might experience "slightly" patchy effect from the henna. It might not stick evenly. On the other hand using the color remover before the henndigo/buxus or which ever, will even up the results. But do not expect 100% perfect - this will be a bonus.

Buxus might not take so well in damaged hair also. Sort a beige. I would suggest relying more on the Indigo - initially at least. Tricky.

Avoid the roots with the color remover product. In worst case scenario your hairtips will turn up very light after the color removing. Theyre dead and wont take much dye either.

Your previous damage will have prevented your curls from forming. Do not expect much change immediately. I would really recommend a deep conditioning treatment BEFORE the henna treatment. When your roots have grown out, you will not have to care so much for the hair as before.

Glosses will be your typicall upkeep, though the porosity of your hair might make it neccessary for some full treatments for color adjustments in between.

Dont condition immediately afterwards, if you want to maximize the indigo - unless your really really have to. You probably will, after all that color removing etc.

Magical Mystery Girl
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Re: Indigo or buxus?

Ok thanks.  I'm going to strand test. :)

You mentioned a henna/indigo/buxus mix.  What would this change exactly, and I'm assuming you mean a ratio of 50/25/25? 

 

Also, I've heard ot indigo fading on some people, so I'm assuming if that is the case, I would need to keep glossing with indigo?  So how does one upkeep a hendigo without it building up to black? 

Also, how long would you typically leave it on for?  I read that if left on too long, the henna will out dye the indigo/buxus, making more red appear.  So I'm guessing 1.5-2 hours?

Carrie
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Re: Indigo or buxus?

Henna/indigo/buxus can be any ratio, depending on your desired results. You could use 40/40/20, for example. Or 50/30/20, and so on. Buxus is weaker than indigo and a little greener instead of bluer, so having buxus in there makes the results a little bit lighter than if you used indigo alone for the green/blue part of your mix, perhaps a little bit ashier if there is more buxus than indigo.

Indigo fades on some, but on most it fades 1-2 times then sticks forever, no upkeep needed. If you do have fading of indigo OR buxus, you can add that back in with a weak gloss. If you don't have fading, you don't need any upkeep on the length so you can simply touch up roots as they come in.

For dark brown I would leave it on for about 2 hours. 3 or more hours can make it redder, as you say.

Magical Mystery Girl
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Re: Indigo or buxus?

The color remover I use is not a bleach... It simply lifts the color out without any damage. I've used it several times before and my hair actually felt better after use.  It's made with all sorts of natural goodies that condition your hair. 

I've been treating it for many months now with protein treatments, overnight coconut/olive oil applications, etc. and it's in fine condition... It's just porous for some reason. Doesn't feel bad to the touch at all, which is odd. I started camellia oil today and my curls are back! I'm just done with chemicals for good now, and since the brown just feels right, and my natural hair is lighter than the desired shade, I don't deem it logical to use chemicals to get a darker shade.

Anyhow, I'm going to strand test and see which way I go. I'll post results. :) I've had great results with buxus in the past, but indigo is intriguing me.

chrisg
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Re: Indigo or buxus?

Sorry, but no such thing as a color remover whithout bleach = peroxide.

Even honey treatments for example, are based on peroxide.

Magical Mystery Girl
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Re: Indigo or buxus?

The product I use is called Solfine Reverse CremaColor.  It removes artificial color without effecting your hair's natural pigment one bit. 

Nonetheless, as I said, my hair actually feels better to the touch after I use it.  I've used multiple color removers in my life and it's the only one that didn't hurt my hair. I recommend it. :)

chrisg
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Re: Indigo or buxus?

Ah, I checked out the website. I know how this type works. It does not remove any color, the pigment itself stays in your hair. It works because of a chemical trick played on the pigment, that appears to be lighter as it is. After some time this effect disappears though. But by then the initial dye (this only works on chemical dyes *lol*) has faded and wont bother you.

This is one of the better ways to conceal color but it does also change the chemistry of the hair. Why else bother to put in conditioning products with it? I cant tell for sure if this effect will hold up after a henna treatment. You will have to be abit open for unexpected results - henna is an oxidizing treatment.

Magical Mystery Girl
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When do I add amla?

In some places, I read of people adding the amla to the henna powder then waiting for dye release, and in other cases, I read of people adding the amla after dye release.  Which technique is best and what's the difference?

Carrie
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Re: When do I add amla?

I don't which is best or what difference it makes. Most people seem to be adding it to henna before dye release but Megumi, the organic hair colorist in Hawaii, uses lemon juice and then adds amla after dye release.

 

Magical Mystery Girl
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40:40:20?

.... I am pretty sure now that it was the color remover I was using that was making my hair dye turn so dark.  Perhaps I didn't rinse it out enough and it created a strange chemical reaction with my hair dye?  I used a different type of color remover, then threw a light brown in my hair so that it would all appear asd my natural color.  And no, it didn't turn black! So now my hair is a dyed light brown.

I'm going to strand test a henna/indigo/buxus mix of 40:40:20, so that it doesn't turn out too red, and I have at least 50/50 henna/indigo in my hair as the buxus fades.  I want to keep the red very muted, and I've had good luck with buxus in the past.  ANyone have any photos of a 40:40:20 henna/indigo/buxus mix on hair that is a light brown? 

 

 

Magical Mystery Girl
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... full henna before hendigo??

I've been reading of people doing a straight up henna treatment prior to a hendigo.  Why is this done? WOuld it help me get the result I'm aiming for? 

Carrie
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Re: ... full henna before hendigo??

It's done to help indigo color get taken up and stay in the hair better. It might help you, if you have trouble with indigo uptake.

Magical Mystery Girl
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Re: Indigo or buxus?

Well I've never used indigo before so I wouldn't know... In that case, am I better off doing an indigo gloss over my hair afterwards if it doesn't stick? But will an indigo gloss result in black as a 2 step does?? 

 

Carrie
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Re: Indigo or buxus?

If your indigo gloss is dilute enough and you don't leave it on too long, it will not turn your hair black. If it's stronger or stays on longer, it could. I did an indigo gloss using 1Tbsp indigo in 1 cup conditioner applied for 30 minutes and it made my mutiply-hennaed hair purplish/burgundy, not black. If I had used 3 Tbsp for 30 minutes, it would probably have turned black or near-black.

Magical Mystery Girl
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avoiding purple/burgundy

It's funny you mention a purple/burgundy cast, because I've noticed a lot of hendigo heads have that, and I really don't want that at all.  Is that what the amla is going to do? Cancel it out?

chrisg
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Re: avoiding purple/burgundy

No it will not make the shade less cool if there is a lot dye saturation from the henna and indigo. You have to watch out for that at an earlier state. Then it will make it a bit browner. "If the seat is already taken" it cant change anything.

Some hair qualities may not take that much henndigo though. Not everyone can go that dark and go purple/burgundy. There is no way to know for sure without strand tests.

Carrie
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Re: avoiding purple/burgundy

Chrisg is right, the purple/burgundy cast is related to having hennaed repeatedly until the hair can't absorb any more henna ( = "saturation" ). If you don't henna that much, then using indigo in or over your henna mix will make your results more brownish instead of purplish.  Amla makes indigo come out darker/cooler so I wouldn't rely on it to keep purple tones from happening.

Magical Mystery Girl
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amla

So should I actually skip on the amla? 

Chocolate brown in my head, has a slight warm cast, so I'd rather a slight copper warmth than a burgundy cast.  The latter would not suit me at all. The lady at henna sooq highly recommended the Moroccan henna, because she said the dye content was so low that it was the best to use when teamed up with indigo or buxus to get brown.  Maybe I don't need the amla in that case? 

Another quick question a little off topic...  Are the Lush Caca hennas considered to be compound henna? Are they not to be used on previously chemically dyed hair? 

I should be receiving my henna and indigo tomorrow, so let me know about the amla. :) Also, should I be wrapping my head or not? I've heard that not wrapping the head pushes more of a brown than a red...

I appreciate your help, guys.

Carrie
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Re: amla

Agree you probably don't need amla for color reasons. You may want it to help preserve curl, if henna has loosened curl for you in the past.

Lush is a premixed dye and thus off topic. But I don't think you'll have a problem using it chemically dyed hair. You can ask them directly, or for more discussion on Lush you can ask on the Long Hair Community forum.

Do wrap your head- that bit about leaving off the wrap for more brown makes no sense to me. It will dry, so it won't work as well and be hard to rinse out, causing you to lose more hair.

 

Magical Mystery Girl
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liquid?

One more queston...

Should I use chamomile tea, black tea, or coffee as my liquid? Will it make a difference?

Carrie
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Re: liquid?

Colorwise no difference, but avoid caffeine unless you need a jolt :)  I like to use herbal tea like chamomile.

Magical Mystery Girl
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Tonight!!

I'm hendigoing today and very excited! I'm going to strand test a 50/50 Moroccan henna/organic indigo mix.  I decided to forget about the buxus, because I know it fades fast, and I don't want to be deceived for 3 weeks.  If some indigo fades, then perhaps I'll do a buxus or indigo gloss to get it right.

I'm very excited!! I'm mostly excited about having healthy hair back... but also excited about having permanent brown without chemicals.  I figured it was silly to keep using chemicals to achieve a darker color than my natural hair... All signs point to hendigo. 

What's great is I found a supplier about 20 minutes from me who deals with Henna Sooq!!! Moroccan henna was on backorder in Toronto, so she luckily had some of last year's crop!! 

I'll keep you guys posted!!

Magical Mystery Girl
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Dry or damp?

Question...

Is it best to apply the hendigo to dry hair or can it be damp? I have such thick hair, that damp would be a lot easier.  Will it effect the color at all?

xyz
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Re: Dry or damp?

Just shampooed and towel dried hair is what most people do.  It might work for you too.  Remember not to use conditioner to avoid interfering with the indigo uptake.  Good luck!  Let us know how it turns out. 

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